Trend Title:ABC NEWS SCORES BIG WITH FIRST BIDEN/HARRIS SIT DOWN
Info:SOLID INTERVIEW GIVES INSIGHT
DAVID MUIR: Well, thank you both for sitting down with us.
JOE BIDEN: Thanks for having us.
KAMALA HARRIS: Thank you.
MUIR: Mr. Vice President, as you know it was more than 30 years ago, you first ran for president -- 1987. You ran three times. It's now 2020, and you're the candidate of change. I wonder, after dreaming of that moment for more than three decades, what it was like.
BIDEN: Well you know, we talked about this a little bit. I have an overwhelming sense of obligation, I mean, whoever wins this collection is going to determine the fate of this country for at least a couple decades, and there's a lot at stake. So it's an overwhelming sense of obligation to get this right. But it, I feel an obligation as I said to, to get it right, the character of the country is on the ballot. There is so much at stake.
MUIR: And Senator Harris, you've already made history by just being on this ticket. But something you said before you were even chosen, you said, "I want him to choose whoever he believes can help him win." You said, "It sounds pretty cold blooded, but that's where I am."
HARRIS: That is correct.
MUIR: You’re the pick. How are you best suited to help Vice President Biden win?
HARRIS: Well, I believe that between Joe Biden and myself we really do represent the breadth and depth of who we are as Americans, and you know, he and I often talk about the importance of leadership and leaders that see the people and understand who the people are and respond to their needs, giving them dignity and respect in the process. And when I think about Joe's life, I think about his career, coupled with my experiences in my career, I think that between us we have the ability to really meet the American people where they are and address their fears and their hopes and their dreams. And I think that's critical right now.
To Joe's point, there's so much on the line, there's so much at stake in this election and the people -- the people of America have a right to have leaders that care about them and understand them.
MUIR: We have so much we want to get to here, but I do want to get right to the heaviness of the moment in our country. The pandemic -- more than 170,000 American lives lost now -- Mr. Vice President, you have said that people are dying because of this negligence. Do you blame President Trump for lives lost?
BIDEN: I don't blame him for the COVID crisis. I blame him for walking away and not dealing with the solutions. The idea of saying that this is going to go away, that some miracle is going to happen, there’s all talk about the crazy things about bleach and using, I mean it's just, he hasn't listened to the scientists.
MUIR: But do you think the negligence on the part of this administration has cost lives?
BIDEN: I can tell you what Columbia University Medical School said. It said that if he had acted just one week earlier, he would have saved over 37,000 lives, 37,000 fewer people would have not passed away. Two weeks earlier over 50,000 people. This is about telling the American people the truth, letting the scientists speak, listening to the science, not and-- stepping out of the way. Let the experts go out and let, let the American people know what the truth is and what has to be done.
MUIR: You said in your speech last night that you want to implement a national strategy and as part of that strategy you said, "We'll have a national mandate to wear masks." You know a lot of governors aren't going to go along with that and what do you say to Americans who say, this is my freedom, my choice whether to wear a mask? Are you going to force them to wear a mask?
BIDEN: Well, look, I think I'm going to ask every governor to step up. This isn't about freedom, it's about freedom for your, your neighbors. It's about a patriotic responsibility to protect your neighbors. And the only way you can do that is to be socially distanced and wearing a mask when you're in public, when you're outside. This is, this is, I mean I find this-- the first time I've ever heard people say that doing something patriotic you can save other people's lives, impacts on their freedom. Come on. Give me a break, this is about saving lives.
MUIR: You talk about the science. If you're sworn in come January, and, and we have coronavirus and the flu combining, which many scientists have said is a real possibility, would you be prepared to shut this country down again?
BIDEN: I will be prepared to do whatever it takes to save lives because we cannot get the country moving until we control the virus. That is the fundamental flaw of this administration's thinking to begin with. In order to keep the country running and moving and the economy growing, and people employed, you have to fix the virus, you have to deal with the virus.
MUIR: So if the scientists say shut it down?
BIDEN: I would shut it down, I would listen to the scientists.
MUIR: And Senator Harris, we have seen the disproportionate toll on communities of color, all across this nation during this pandemic. The president talks about the potential of a vaccine almost daily. We have seen what's happened with testing in this country -- the lines, waiting, days, weeks for results, even when there is a vaccine -- under your administration, who would get that vaccine first?
HARRIS: Well, that's a great point because let's also be clear that creating a vaccine, and finally having a vaccine is a very different point than people actually being vaccinated, and there needs to be a plan. And that's one of the things that Joe and I talk about, which is the plan to ensure that we're going to have all of the equipment in place to actually administer a vaccine to the largest number of people as quickly as possible. But doing that, keeping in mind that there are disparities, that there are different needs based on different communities and that's why we talk about the need to track actually racial disparities -- disparities based on region, geographic region and do that now. So that when we have a vaccine, those communities that are most in need, will get them. But, again, that policy and that approach will be guided by the public health experts, unlike what we have seen now which are the politics guiding a public health crisis, to the point that as Joe has said, we've had over 170,000 souls who perished in just the last several months.
We've had the economic impact that some described as being the equivalent of what we saw in terms of the harm of the Great Depression. And one of the things I think about Joe, that is so important, in terms of this moment in time, is his approach is about "we're all in this together, we're all in this together," as opposed to Donald Trump, who is yet on every issue and this issue, trying to divide America on something is as important as who wears a mask or doesn't. And I think that should portend the future in terms of where we're going to be when it comes time for a vaccine. Are we gonna have a president in place, who is paying attention to the health and the needs of the American people? Or is he going to be manipulating the American people for his personal political gain?
BIDEN: David, can I just say one thing? I've been pleading with the president for the last three months: you need a plan. I suggested that save $25 billion now and put together a plan. How will you get to over 300 million Americans? He has no notion, how to do that. There's somebody that should be in charge now directing precisely how the vaccine would be distributed, how many vials are going to have to be fact manufactured that hold the vaccine, how many shots are going to have to be required. How is he going to do it? It's about how. Plan now.
MUIR: But on that point of a vaccine, the president has said we could have a vaccine by year's end. He's floated the idea of having a vaccine by November. Are you concerned at all that he'll announce a vaccine in the days leading up to the election?
BIDEN: No, I'm not concerned. I would hope that they’d be able to have the vaccine. Now most of the medical guys and women I talked to, I get advised four times a week for an hour and a half from the leading health care providers and immunologists in the country, and they tell me that's highly unlikely to be able to do that. But if God willing it happened, it’d be wonderful. My concern is whether or not it will be made available and how it's made available. It has to be thoroughly transparent. The entire medical community has to understand what was done, how, how the vaccine was developed, what test did it go through, so that people have confidence in it.
MUIR: Be honest with the American people though. If you're elected president, Mr. Vice President, where will we be? You've been meeting with your scientists. What does next winter look like? What does a year from now look like? Are we still in the middle of this pandemic?
BIDEN: It depends on what this president leaves me in five months. Everybody asks, which is a legitimate question, what are you going to do on January 21, 2021? It depends on what he's left me with, and right now it looks like what's going to happen is that the numbers are going to go up. There's, there’s estimates that well over 200,000 people will die. Significantly more people will be infected. It doesn't have to be that way. He can take action now, now, to deal with this.
MUIR: We know there's another crisis attached to this pandemic and that's the economy. Thirty million Americans on unemployment right now we just learned of another million last week filing for unemployment. You lead in the polls, but in the same polls there's also a vulnerability. Over and over again, President Trump leads on the economy, and you know what he's saying? He said, President Biden, a Biden administration, will raise your taxes, will you raise taxes?
BIDEN: I will raise taxes for anybody making over $400,000. Let me tell you why I'm going to do it. It's about time they start paying a fair share of the economic responsibility we have. The very wealthy should pay fair share, corporations should pay a fair share. The fact is, there are corporations making close to a trillion dollars that pay no tax at all. I’m not punishing anybody. This is about everybody paying their fair share.
MUIR: So no new taxes $400,000 and down?
BIDEN: No new taxes, there would be no need for (inaud).
MUIR: And in the middle of a recovery because you've seen this before when you entered back in 2008 with President Obama -- Is it smart to tax businesses while you're trying to recover?
BIDEN: It's smart to tax businesses that are in fact are making excessive amounts of money and paying no taxes. It's how we did it last time, look what happened. I was put in charge of making sure that $800 billion got distributed around the country and started economic growth. Less than two tenths of 1% waste or fraud, the largest, the most consecutive number of months of growth in jobs of any time in history. We did it the right way. Look what he's doing. The money was supposed to go to help small businesses, you have one in six small businesses have already closed. You're finding a situation that over 60% of the money -- only 40% of money for small businesses went to small businesses.
MUIR: But what is the cut off? You're talking about small businesses, will you be raising taxes on small businesses?
MUIR: You’re talking about...
BIDEN: I'm talking about -- I'm talking about businesses that in fact -- look, you have 90% of the businesses out are mom and pop businesses that are out there that are making -- that employee less than 50 people. There will be no raising taxes on them. We have to provide them with the ability to reopen. We have to provide more help for them, not less help.
MUIR: I want to turn to the blistering attacks we've seen from President Trump just this week alone on your mental fitness, whether you're up for the job. His campaign has called you "diminished." And I'm curious how you’d respond to that.
BIDEN: Watch me. Mr. President, watch me. Look at us both. Look at us both, what we say, what we do, what we control, what we know, what kind of shape we're in. Come on. This is look, I think it's a legitimate question to ask anybody over 70 years old whether or not they're fit and whether they're ready. But I just, only thing I can say to the American people, it's a legitimate question to ask anybody. Watch me.
MUIR: Let's put the attacks aside. The American people remember Ronald Reagan was 77 when he left office, you would be 78 entering office and you have said yourself that you are a transition candidate. Does that mean a one-term president, what does that mean?
BIDEN: No, it doesn't mean-- what it means is I'm, we haven’t spent nearly enough time building the bench in the Democratic Party. Remember after one of the primaries, I said, I'm going to spend time camping in North Carolina, Georgia and Florida and the rest, and they said, why would you do that? Can’t win those states. In, in any state where we have competitive people running for the Senate and the House and the legislature. It's important the Democratic Party invest there. Invest there. So when I want to do is make sure when this is over, we have a new Senate, we won back statehouses, we’re in a position where we transition to a period of bringing people up to the visibility that they need to get to be able to lead nationally. And that's about raising people up. And that's what I'm about.
MUIR: So you're leaving open the possibility you'll serve eight years if elected?
MUIR: Let me ask you both about a moment that people love to make a lot of. I have no interest in going back and looking at all the debates. Instead, though I'd like to talk about the words on stage when the two of you were rivals. You remember that moment, Senator Harris, you were on stage talking about being a little girl who was being bussed, and you said of the Vice President's words about working with segregationist senators that they were hurtful and personal. I think the American people want to know that these aren't debate moments, these aren't political points, that when you say they were hurtful and personal -- you mean that. And so I'm curious what the vice president has said to you since then that made you think, OK, I'm OK with this, I can join this ticket.
HARRIS: What is hurtful to me is that black families own one-tenth of the wealth of white families. What is hurtful to me is that black and Latinos are twice as likely to die from COVID as white families. What is hurtful to me is that when you look at the disparities, and everything from health care to education, to the economic wellbeing of families in America, there are real racial disparities that are rooted in systemic racism. And -- and -- and a failure to address the truths that may be difficult truths. Joe Biden does that. And he is doing that. He is addressing these truths. He speaks these truths. And one of the reasons I'm so excited to be on this ticket with him and God willing to serve with him is that he has the confidence of character, and a real genuine commitment to address these issues.
And so he has policies before I was on the ticket that are about addressing racial disparities in the economy. Let's talk about that. Around an investment in families to help them with homeownership. He has a whole plan before I was on the ticket to address HBCUs. I'm a proud graduate of Howard University. That is particularly very exciting. He has a plan that is about addressing the desperate need for reform of our criminal justice system. And that's what this has to be about, which is translating the pain that we've collectively should feel as a country and I think we do collectively feel when I looked at who was marching in the streets and translate that into action that is about fixing the problems and that's Joe Biden's approach. And that's why I'm so excited to be on this ticket with him.
MUIR: Mr. Vice President, your wife Jill Biden had called it a punch to the gut that night, what she saw from Senator Harris. But now that months have passed do you, do you sense an understanding of where Senator Harris was coming from when she said, personal and hurtful?
BIDEN: I sense exactly where she's coming from and I think -- look, I think a lot of people, and maybe even the senator at the time didn't know the depth of my record. I'm also someone who has -- we have the eighth largest Black population in America in this state. The reason I'm sitting here with you now is because African Americans vote over 90% for me. I don't take anything for granted. I've worked like hell 10 blocks from here, the East Side, which is all African American. That's where I worked. I was a public defender. I was deeply involved. First job I ever had I ran as a county councilman to end redlining. So, that is keeping blacks out of neighborhoods and not lending money to them, and so on. So, this is something where I don't think most people knew the depth of the background that I had. And so, look, but we’re -- we’re on the same exact page about what the possibilities are right now. There's enormous possibilities because the blinders have sort of been taken off the American people, they've seen the extent of the systemic racism that exists, and they're ready to do something about it.
MUIR: I was watching the convention, obviously, very closely. I saw you had a number of Republican headliners during the convention and everyday voters from across America, Republicans, independents and Senator Harris I wanted to ask you about something I'm sure you've heard often: The president and his campaign have said Kamala Harris was rated the most liberal US Senator in 2019, that she completes the radical leftist takeover of Joe Biden. I know you laugh, but you were to the left of Joe Biden on some major issues going into the primary, you know, Medicare for all, eliminating private insurance, the Green New Deal. So, have you moved closer to Joe Biden or has he moved closer to you?
HARRIS: Joe Biden and I are completely aligned on the goal: making sure everyone has health care, and it's not a function of how much money they have in their back pocket. He and I have personal experiences with people we love deeply, who have gone through the health care system and who ultimately passed away, and, and that is a personal and in a very deep held belief that is based on a shared value that all people should have access to health care. You look at what we need to do in terms of the climate crisis, Joe’s speech last night said it all, we're facing four crises right now in America, and one of them is the climate crisis. We agree on what we need to do, which is to take it seriously as one of the highest priorities of our government, knowing that it is an existential threat to who we are as human beings.
MUIR: Is the Green New Deal though still your ultimate goal?
HARRIS: Where I am, is that we need to have a goal that is based on timelines, and that's what the Harris plan was before, and what the Biden plan was before, and so together the Biden-Harris ticket is about saying that we're going to have deadlines on when we're going to achieve greenhouse gas emission reduction, when we're going to have an investment in electric vehicles, and do what we need to do to invest in renewable energies, there's a whole plan about investing in infrastructure around renewable energies-- one million jobs will be created as a result of that.
MUIR: And you know I ask you this because you have pressure from the left, you have pressure from the center, you're trying to appeal to Republicans, and so on sort of the evolution on the issues when you talk about health care that you see eye to eye -- do you see a day where private insurance would go away as you once proposed?
HARRIS: No, and in fact that my plan, when I was running, was that we would not eliminate private insurance. And Joe and I--
MUIR: Even though you signed on for Medicare for All?
HARRIS: I signed on to that. I signed on to a number of bills that were about great ideas to fix the problem. I want to fix the problem. And Joe has a plan to fix the problem and I'm fully supportive of it.
BIDEN: David, I think, if I can just interrupt for just a moment. The degree to which we disagreed in the primaries is-- was on tactic. We both believe Medicare, healthcare is a right not a privilege. We both believe that we have to deal with the existential threat to humanity, called global warming, but they call it a new Green Deal or-- we have, it’s just a matter of detail. I think we can eliminate and I think the senator does as well, we can eliminate, we can have a power system and electric grid system, that in fact has-- we get to zero emissions by 2035. We can own the market in electric vehicles. The question is how you get there, how you get there and how quickly and what you do to get there. And so I don't think we have any disagreement on the basic question of what we have to do, as a nation, and, and it's always been more tactic than it has been about a fundamental difference.
MUIR: I want to ask you both about the next 70 days, not much time left. We saw the president just this week during the convention, he traveled to Pennsylvania, he traveled to Wisconsin, Iowa, Arizona, all of that while you were making your case to the American people. I understand the restrictions of COVID and campaigning in this time, but can you win a presidential election from home?
BIDEN: We will. We're going to follow the science, what the scientists tell us. We've been able to travel places when we've been able to do it in a way that we don't cause the congregation of large numbers of people. Look what happened with his, his events, people die, people get together, they don't wear masks, they end up getting COVID, they end up dying, one of his strongest supporters-- Anyway, the point is that this is about the science. This is about the, look, the whole issue of getting the economy under control and having it grow again cannot occur until we in fact get COVID under control.
MUIR: So when you hear the president say this guy's afraid to leave his basement.
BIDEN: Guess what. I have left my basement, and -- but in the meantime 500 million people have watched what I've done out of my basement. And guess what? People are listening, people are listening. It's about being responsible. For example, I was initially going to do the convention from up at where --I was the chairman of the Constitution Center, up in - up in Philadelphia, but Philadelphia has a rule -- Pennsylvania’s rule, no more than 25 people congregating. So I decided I can't do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to listen to the scientists, and we did it down here, and we've done it in a way that has been safe and secure. That's how we're going to be. I went to -- I've gone around the country. I've been -- I've been to Texas. I've been around, but doing it in a way that I am not going to have thousands of people show up not wearing masks and infecting one another.
MUIR: Senator Harris, I wanted to ask you about the Postmaster General. As you know he was testifying just today, just before we sat down for this interview. You would typically be there to question. I know you sent in questions on your own. He acknowledged that the changes he's made have caused delays but then he said this: the Postal Service will deliver every ballot and process every ballot in time that it receives.That's a promise from the Postmaster General, that the postal service will deliver every ballot and process every ballot in time. Do you buy that?
HARRIS: I don't necessarily believe anything that he has said, when he says that what he has done has had no effect. Because I know it to be true that small businesses around our country in these last days, that he has withdrawn resources from the Postal Service, are suffering. I have been receiving stories from small business owners about how they can't get their product out on time. That it arrives late, and so their Yelp, or their Amazon rating goes down, because their customer is upset. I've heard stories about small businesses who are trying to ship out their product, and it arrives late past when they promised it would arrive. So now they're out of their product and they have to pay a reimbursement. I've heard about seniors who rely on receiving their medication in the mail on time. And, in addition to whatever they're suffering physically, they are worried to their bone that their medication may not come in time for them to take it properly. These are the things that are happening right now in America, because of the failure to put in place the resources in one of America's greatest institutions which is the Postal Service.
MUIR: Do you think the president is deliberately trying to slow down the mail-in vote?
HARRIS: You know, here's the thing about Donald Trump. You can-- I'm not gonna spend too much time getting into his brain. I'm just watching what he does and the effect of it. And the effect of what he is doing on this subject is hurting small businesses, seniors, people across our country in rural communities where that is the only method by which they receive mail or packages. This is what's happening in real time.
BIDEN: And he said he wanted to defund the post office at one point because he does not want people to be able to vote by mail. That's what he said.
MUIR: The president also said just this week, the only way we're going to lose this election is if it's rigged. And you have said if Trump loses, he might not leave the White House, do you really believe that?
BIDEN: Well, look I said two things I said, number one, I predict to you that Trump will say we could delay the election. On your nightly show, you pointed out Biden said that. Legitimately I did, and I said that's an exaggeration. Three weeks later he said, maybe we should delay the election until he got so laughed out of that position he said well I didn't really mean that. Then he comes along and says we should defund the post office because vote-by-mail as he’s sitting there, signing his absentee ballot he's mailing the Florida, is fraudulent. Zero, zero evidence that that’s true, and he's going to do everything he can. And that he also when asked, “Will you leave the White House if you lose?” He said it will depend, or something to that effect.
MUIR: So what would you do?
BIDEN: The American people will not let that happen. And by the way, everyone from the-- anyway, no one's going to allow that to happen.
MUIR: Mr. Vice President, I want to get your reaction. I want to get your reaction to something the president said just today. He was responding to your speech last night, he said the biggest part of last night's speech is what Joe Biden didn't talk about. He said he didn't talk about law enforcement. He didn't talk about bringing safety to our cities where we're seeing violence, they have no clue. Your response?
BIDEN: My response is I did talk about what we have to do. And secondly, look, this is the guy who has a budget calling for cutting a half a billion dollars in local law enforcement from the federal government aid-- from the federal government. He's the one proposing cutting. I'm not proposing cutting the budget. I’m proposing that there be be basic fundamental transparent laws relating to police conduct that be national, but in the meantime we have to help the police departments, they need more help with psychologists, not for them, psychologists, sociologists, people who can get involved in making sure they can negotiate things that don't require a policeman with a gun to deal with.
MUIR: Senator Harris, I want to bring this to you because we're on the eve of the Republican National Convention. The president will label himself as the law and order president, but we have seen in this country that tens of thousands of Americans from all backgrounds protesting and demonstrating in the streets demanding that this country root out systemic racism. You joined the protest after George Floyd.
HARRIS: Yes I did.
MUIR: How do you make sure that they are heard, that they see change, while you still support law enforcement in this country? Can you do both?
HARRIS: Absolutely. The movement that we are seeing take place in the streets of America by the hundreds of thousands involving people of every race, age, gender, has been a movement to say, in large part, one, there needs to be accountability and consequence for anyone who breaks the rules or breaks the law, including police officers, but also that we need to reimagine how we are creating safe communities and understand that the way to create safe communities is to invest in those communities, invest in high rates of homeownership, invest in public education in schools, invest in access to capital. Because here's what the folks marching know -- if you look at any upper class suburb in America, you will not see the kind of police presence you see in those other communities, but what you will see: high rates of homeownership families who have jobs, they don't have to worry about paying bills by the end of the month, access to capital for small businesses, thriving public schools, and that's what we're talking about doing. And so, let's deal with the issues that face America, including the need to invest in the health and well being of communities, as well as requiring accountability for people who break the rules and break the law.
MUIR: I want to get your thoughts on something else. President Trump has referred to you as "nasty," a sort of "madwoman," a "disaster," the "meanest, most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the US Senate." How do you define what you hear from the President?
HARRIS: Listen, I really -- I think that there is so much about what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth that is designed to distract the American people from what he is doing every day. That is about neglect, negligence and harm to the American people.
BIDEN: And incompetence.
HARRIS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
BIDEN: The idea that he would say something like that. No president-- no president has ever said anything like that. No president has ever used those words, and no president has said people coming out of fields with torches and spewing anti semitic bile and met by people who oppose them, and someone dies and he says they're good people on both sides. No president of the United States has ever said anything like that ever.
MUIR: The president said he's already prepping for the debates. Are you?
BIDEN: So am I. I can hardly wait.
MUIR: Who is playing Trump?
BIDEN: I'm prepping.
MUIR: You can get back to me on that. And Senator Harris, I wanted to ask you because we heard from the vice president just today that he's looking forward to seeing you on that debate stage more than anyone could imagine.
HARRIS: Oh good. Me too.
MUIR: You're prepping?
HARRIS: Oh, I’m looking forward to seeing him. Yes, absolutely.
MUIR: And let me just ask you one more question. The two of you were rivals out on the trail and I remember Senator Harris, you were often asked, would you-- would you consider being a vice president on a Joe Biden ticket and your answer to that was well, he’d be a great running mate. He's already -- your answer was he’d be a great running mate, he's already proven he can be vice president. I'm curious. Are you okay with how it turned out?
HARRIS: I absolutely am and I will tell you, Joe Biden is really probably, for me, a model of what makes for a great vice president and the model for me if and when God willing we win this election. What he did in, in-- as a partner to Barack Obama, what he did in terms of leading on very significant issues in support of Barack Obama is really inspirational for me as a model of how I intend to do the job.
MUIR: Would you have picked him?
HARRIS: I would have certainly picked him and you know what? It's actually-- we have a commitment to each other so in many ways after he chose me, I chose him too.
MUIR:That's very true. Just one last question before I let you both go.
MUIR: Mr. Vice President, last night you said I'll be the Democratic candidate, but I'll be an American president. This is a very polarized country. How will you bring together people?
BIDEN: The president's job is to heal, to heal. This country needs healing. I'll be a president who tells the truth, who takes responsibility and who in fact invites the opposition to come to the Oval Office and settle problems together. Look at this president. In the middle of what we're trying to figure out in this next piece of aid for local, state and government, he hasn't even had the Republicans and Democrats sit down in the Oval Office. He is out in a sand trap somewhere, sand trap-- golfing. What is this all about? You're a student of history, name me a president in the middle of a crisis, who's ever completely walked away?
Presidents-- the words of a president matters, no matter who he is. And it's about time we start to hear from a president that it's about uniting the country, bringing together-- it's going to be hard, nothing easy about it. But I've done that all my life and people say well things are so different now, they are different now, it's going to take time to heal. But the president has to be willing to engage and I'm willing to engage and I think we can get so much done. Last thing I'll say, remember after he won we were told before he got sworn in-- we were told to be no more legislation law, Mitch McConnell said nothing else. We had been working on a bill The Cures Act for almost $9 billion for NIH and for cancer research. I put together the Democrats and Republicans, we only had a handful of votes in both places, it ended up passing in December after we were no longer-- we were going to change office in January, in December, and it passed like 390 some members of house and 94 members of the Senate.
People need, I learned a long time ago. It's always appropriate to, to question another man and woman's judgment. I mean, excuse me, their, their philosophy, but it's never appropriate to question their judgment. Excuse me, their judgment, and not talk about their motive. And when you talk about motive you say well you know you're in a, you're in the pocket in the cement manufacturers. By the way can we work something out of the transportation bill? You can't get anything done. I learned a long time ago, take people seriously, make the case you make. Don't, you don’t have to bend on principle, if you can’t work out an agreement then you try to win the day you try to defeat them. But there's so much we still have in common. I refuse to believe we can't get things done, like infrastructure, he’s been talking about it. The infrastructure plan he had for ‘17 and ‘18 and ‘19, and he's done nothing. Republicans aren't there, they're ready to come I believe, if they have somebody who will reach out and we can deal with things that we all agree on. We can agree on so much, but you got to reach out. You've got to be in the deal. Not vindictive and following up and going after people who disagree with you.
MUIR: You're ready to reach out?
BIDEN: I'm ready to reach out. Now, by the way, I'm not ready to compromise on fundamental principle, and the other way to do it is like we did in 2018. Guess what? They wouldn't, they didn't agree, so I went to 23 states, campaigned for 68 candidates, I told you we went 41 votes for the House, we won it back-- what did we do? We didn't go after them personally. We took them on on the issue of healthcare and wanting to do away with Obamacare. Did you hear anybody at the end of that election saying, during the 2018 election, “I want to get rid of Obamacare?” They didn't. They didn't. And we won 41 seats. So look, when you disagree. You try to reach a principled compromise, if you can’t, you go into the districts and you to try to win, but by not by attacking people personally, by attacking their political judgment, not their motive.
MUIR: Mr. Vice President. Senator Harris. Thank you. Please be safe.
BIDEN: Thank you.
HARRIS: Thank you.
---ROBIN ROBERTS: Vice President Biden, Senator Harris, I am telling you David and I are very appreciative of this opportunity to have this conversation with you both. Officially the democratic ticket.JOE BIDEN: This is it!KAMALA HARRIS: This is it.ROBERTS: And I remember, many people remember, that you said that you wanted to select a vice president that had strengths and qualities that you don't have. So, what strengths qualities does Senator Harris have that you don’t?BIDEN: She has enormous strength. The main reason and I realized that I drove my staff crazy and everybody else and all of you by not letting anybody know who I picked. But I wanted someone who was, who was strong and who was ready to be president on day one, and she's ready. And the other thing about Kamala is that I asked her, when I called her and asked her to be my vice president -- the nominee along with me -- I said, I'd like to ask you what Barack asked of me.
I want you to be the last person in the room on every major decision because I know she'll not be intimidated by the, by the Oval Office. I know she'll not be reluctant to tell me exactly what she thinks. And I know she'll have a perspective -- different in many cases than mine just by nature of who we are and our backgrounds and that's why I thought it was so important as well to have a woman as vice president.
ROBERTS: You get the call, the Zoom call. Take us back to that moment.
HARRIS: It was extraordinary, almost surreal. So the call was set up. It was scheduled. I had no idea what the content of the call, or the conversation would be, and you know, the, the great thing about Joe, he didn't make me, you know, he didn't, he didn't build up the tension. He immediately said "let's do this." And, you know, I'm so honored and I told him that then, and I -- and I feel it, to serve with him, to go through not only the campaign with him, but to fight to win this election.
I do strongly believe Joe is the person for this moment to lead our country, and I feel very committed to doing everything I can to help them in every way.
And it was, you know, it was that feeling it was the feeling of, and I told Joe this, but you know, my mother who you know at the age of 25 gave birth to me at Kaiser Hospital in Oakland, California, and at that time there was no way that she thought that this is how things would work out. It's-- you know I think about her looking down and being very proud and it's very humbling.
ROBERTS: Did you ask for any commitments, any guarantees, before you agreed to be VP?
HARRIS: No, the thing about Joe I’m telling you he just says what’s on his mind, he doesn’t play games, he doesn’t equivocate. One of the first things he said is I want you to be the last person in the room and there was no negotiation at all. It was literally an immediate commitment. There’s so much to get done and I think that’s the kind of relationship and partnership that will be necessary to tackle the kind of challenges that we have right now.
BIDEN: I mean she had the best recommendation she can get: my son Beau, not a joke. Beau asked me when she was U.S. Attorney General, they were attorneys general together taking on the banks, and I got a call and he said, "Dad, I want you to go to California." I said, "OK honey, what for?" He said, "I want you to nominate Kamala Harris for United States Senate." I said OK, without asking. And they were good friends and Beau had great respect for Kamala, knew she was tough. She has a backbone like a ramrod. She's completely thoroughly honest, and so I, you know, I'm not joking. You knew my relationship with Beau. So it was easy for me, it was easy for me.
ROBERTS: And there’s a connection there that I'm going to talk more about when it comes to Beau and the other aspects of family. You alluded, Mr. Vice President, about the fact that you made it clear early on that you were going to select a woman to be your running mate, you would select a woman of color, did you do that to rally your base or did you feel pressure to select a Black woman?
BIDEN: No, I didn't feel pressure to select a Black woman but I-- what I do think and I've said it before, and you've heard me say it. I've probably said it on your show with you, is that the government should look like the people, look like the country. Fifty one percent of the people in this country are women. As that old expression goes, women hold up half the sky, and in order to be able to succeed, you've got to be dealt in across the board, and no matter what you say, you cannot, I cannot understand and fully appreciate what it means to walk in her shoes, to be an African-American woman, with Indian-American background, a child of immigrants. She can’t assume exactly what it's like to walk in my shoes.
What we do know is we have the same value set, and I really mean that and so it was, it was easy for me, it was an easy decision to make. Although there are an enormous number of really qualified women. I spoke to every single woman that was on the list before and as the day I made the choice. Before anything was announced I called every single one of them.
ROBERTS: And so what was the tipping point?
BIDEN: The tipping point was -- I was, it was -- there were several things. But it just seemed to fit the closest and the best. I thought I understood and I think I understand her-- where she comes from, what her instincts are, her, her character. I watched her take on the big banks, I watched her take on the gun lobby, I watched her-- the way she was a prosecutor. I've watched her as a United States senator.You know, I mean she -- she's an incredible woman who just-- and on the Judiciary Committee which I used to chair for years. I watched her just insist on getting the answers, and not, not relented until she got the answers. And so I just-- it just seemed to fit.
ROBERTS: You're not the first. This is not the first time that you are a first and you, you said something about your mom which made me think of mine.
ROBERTS: "It's an honor to be first and do what you can to make sure you're not last."
HARRIS: That’s what my mother said. That was her advice. She said Kamala, you may be the first to do many things, but make sure not the last. But -- but I want to say something about Joe in terms of the selection. You know, we talk about what it means to be progressive. Joe really walks the talk. I'll remind everyone that Joe was one of the first Democrats to speak out in terms of LGBTQ rights and equality. He just did it.
Joe in selecting a woman of color, a woman of color to be his vice president what an audacious move. The audacity of Joe Biden to actually just make that decision, and then follow through on it. And in that way, advance something that might have taken many, many, many years otherwise. And I think that's a very important aspect of Joe’s selection of me. To run with him to be on the ticket with him, and God willing to serve with him. And, and that's one of the things that really makes me so respect and have affection for Joe Biden, because those are the kinds of things he does, and he doesn't seek permission to do it. He doesn't look to whether or not it’s popular. He said I'm going to select a woman, and then he selected a woman of color. Right? It says a lot.
ROBERTS: People are hearing the glowing things that you were saying, and believing these things that you're saying about the vice president, but they're also remembering, can't get past the debate. A lot of people cannot let that go, the way you challenged him, so how did you go from there to here?
HARRIS: I want Joe Biden to be the next president of the United States. I believe in Joe Biden, I believe in his perspective, and frankly I think that's that conversation is a distraction from what we need to accomplish right now and what we need to do. We're looking at a situation where the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of Americans have died in the last few months, where millions, tens of millions of people have become unemployed, and Joe Biden has not only a plan but a deep, deeply rooted commitment to take care of folks. And there are so many of the priorities that he has that are shared priorities between us based on our collective life's work. And we certainly have one thing in common in this election of-- that is, in addition to all the policies, which is: Donald Trump should not be President of the United States. And so that's where I'm focused.
ROBERTS: And did you have a conversation? After that debate, before selecting her? Because it's something that people and I understand what you're saying and, and that was a moment then and how you're committed, but it is the one thing that people ask over and over and over again in this brief amount of time since you've been selected.
BIDEN: As matter of fact, we talked after the debate, exchanged pleasantries. I think what’s-- I think there is an inherently greater burden on women seeking the presidency than on men. I think there’s, there's an inherent sexism that just pervades our politics and, and I was, you know, I remember (former Sen.) Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) saying to me that you can always tell when a guy really means it by look how strong his mother was.
You know, you think I’m joking, I’m not. And, you know, my mom. Also, she was all five foot two of her, she had a backbone like a ramrod, I've been surrounded by, my whole life by and not a joke, by women who are smarter than I was, tough, as tough, women who said what they thought and did it in a way that wasn't always palatable.
My sister and I went to the same university. I graduated, she graduated with honors. My wife has two master's degrees and doctorate degree, my deceased wife was a scholar student at Syracuse University. And I, you know, my daughter has her master's degree with honors from the University of Pennsylvania. I mean there's a lot of-- So I just, and I don't hold grudges. It's not. I think you, you asked me one time in Richard Ben Kramer's book, he said when I waved to a guy who had gone after me and he said, "what are you waving at him for? He's the guy that did such and such to you." And he looked at me and said, "I'm not sure you're Irish. You don’t hold grudges."
But I just look at Kamala and she has everything it takes to engender confidence in the American people. She’s straight as an arrow. She tells people what she wants to do. She does it in a way that is-- I mean, let me say it this way. I remember this very room, the night I got elected when I was 29 years old, and a person came up and said "how'd you do it, how'd you do it?" Like there had to be some secret that I had. And I said, you know, the first thing you got to do if you decide to run is figure out what's worth losing over. If you can determine what's worth losing over, then run. If you don’t, go into something else. You'll be much happier, you’ll do much better. She knows what's worth losing over. And so that's why I like her so much.
ROBERTS: There’s so much that brings you together, and it's family, and that was very apparent during-- in convention, we heard from your families, a great deal. You speak about Beau and how, in essence, he introduced you to Kamala Harris. There's another bond in there in that something that many people can relate to a club that no one wants to belong to and that's when it comes to cancer, and what it can do.
BIDEN: You know.
ROBERTS: And you both lost a loved one. Your mother was a cancer researcher and was taken by the disease. This is a bond that you all have and sharing?
HARRIS: It is and Joe and I have actually talked about the experience, which is an awful experience that far too many Americans have also experienced. He and I have talked about the trips to the hospital for chemotherapy with your loved one. We talked about, you know, when my -- when my mother was sick, there was a doctor who came up to me and said, has anyone talked to you about anticipatory grief, and I had never heard that term, but it makes perfect sense which is you are deeply grieving someone you've not yet lost. And while they're obviously still there-- and it is definitely a shared experience.
BIDEN: But it’s also going to be a shared effort we’re going to have.
BIDEN: We can beat cancer. We talked about -- I think we're a country of possibilities. After Beau passed the president allowed me to run the Cancer Moonshot. I visited virtually every major cancer research facility in the world, in the world. I traveled the world. And one of the things that came, that came out of that was that there are a number of brilliant, brilliant researchers and clinicians, but they didn't talk to each other very much. They didn't share data very much.
You know, when Nixon declared the war on cancer he had no army, he had no troops, he had no capacity to have these hospitals even share records, but we're now in a position where things are changing so drastically. And I truly believe, and we're going to, we're going to assist that we invest considerably more money in research and NIH and -- and I mean make a major, major effort, because we can fundamentally change cancer. So many people are affected by it.
I need not tell you, I think the most frightening word in the English language is that "c" word, “you have cancer.” And so many people deal with it, but we're going to make continued progress on it. And we're making progress right now, but we're going to invest in it.
HARRIS: And you know one thing to add to that point about this election and the shared experience that the three of us have, as it relates to cancer, is the issue of the Affordable Care Act.
And let's remember that it was Joe Biden with President Barack Obama that made that happen that brought health coverage to tens of millions of people. And right now, Donald Trump is in court trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, and if he's successful, over 20 million people will lose their health coverage. One of the blessings that Joe and I had is that Beau, his son, [and] my mother, they had coverage, but to go through an experience like that, where a person you love so deeply is dying before your eyes, and all that that requires in terms of trying to take care of them and have to worry about how you're going to pay the bills and are you going to lose your home, and everything you've worked for, while you're also losing someone you love.
And so, that is also, you know, in terms of the bond that Joe and I have around the issues that are at play in this election, based on our personal experiences, and that being one of probably the most profound and important, which is the dignity of human beings and their right to have health care, and not have it be a function of how much money they have.
BIDEN: How can you maintain your dignity looking at a child, or a husband, or a wife, a mom, or a dad, or a brother, or a sister and they’re terminal and know that without Obamacare, without the Affordable Care Act-- they could have come in and said to Beau well you've outgrown your coverage, suffer the last five months in peace on your own. What? I used to sit there and think about that.
I mean, and it strips so many people, so many people of their dignity knowing they can’t provide for the people who are ill. That's not going to happen on our watch. It's just not gonna happen, no matter what this guy does.
ROBERTS: I know this issue is so important to you. And I'm glad, and many are glad to hear, when it comes to health care in particular, about the fight for cancer. Race relations also are extremely important in this country. You said, "I choose to speak truth, even when it's uncomfortable."
BIDEN: So when you have a running mate who makes a comment like, "you ain't Black," and leads some people to say, "he just doesn't get it." Have you been able to speak truth to him about that?
HARRIS: Listen, when Joe and I talk about, and frankly have talked about, over the years, but in connection with this race about the state of Black America, he has a deep sense of awareness and knowledge about racial disparities, inequities and systematic racism. And Joe speaks the words and actually knows how to say the words "Black Lives Matter." Contrary to what the president of the United States, the current president of the United States, does which is to sow hate and division full time, has never spoken those words and will never speak the words "Black Lives Matter." So in this election, there is no question to me, that electing Joe Biden as president of the United States, means for the first time in the last four years having a president who takes on the issue of systemic racism and does something about it.
So his plans are about dealing with home ownership in the Black community, dealing with investing in Black entrepreneurship. You know, Joe talks full time about the need to support working families. And, you know, some people might think that, oh, that you're only talking about a certain kind of family. No he'll talk about that it's about all families, including Black families, about economic well being, he talks about criminal justice reform. He has an agenda that deals with the fact of race and the difficult fact of race, both in terms of current inequities, but also history, and the racism that has existed in our country, that, that exists today and has historical basis.
In fact, you can talk to Joe about his personal reaction to the kind of white supremacy and, and, and even Charlottesville. He has been outspoken on those issues and, and continues to talk about disparities, and I know where his heart is. I know where his heart is.
BIDEN: I wouldn't be here without the African-American community. We have the eighth largest Black population in America. I worked in the East Side, six blocks from here, which is virtually all African American.
That and I decided to do that because I wanted to learn more. I was a kid getting engaged in the Civil Rights movement. When I came back from law school, we didn’t have a law school in Delaware at the time. I went to Syracuse law school, came back. That semester, Dr. King had been assassinated, 20% of my city was burned to the ground. I had a good job with a well-known law firm and I quit and became a public defender because we're the only city in American history since the Civil War occupied by the military for 10 months with drawn bayonets.
That's where I-- that's where I got my education and get overwhelming support-- over 94% of the vote when I’ve run, but here's the point. You know, when I was asked a question about, you know, why should someone vote for you or they were talking about Trump, and I said, he said, "Well, we like Trump." I said, Well, and I shouldn't have said it. And I said, "Well, OK. Who are you? How could you vote-- how can a Black man vote for him?" I shouldn't have said that.
But what I was trying to make the point that this is a man who spent his entire career denigrating African Americans. Denigrating them, continuing to denigrate them. To do nothing but go after race and inflame it. Pour, you know, gasoline on the fire. I shouldn't have said it, but the truth is, there's a fundamental difference between Donald Trump and me on the issue of race across the board.
I'm not going to, I'm not going to try to divide people. It's all about bringing people together.
ROBERTS: George Floyd and I know you spoke to his daughter.
BIDEN: And their whole family.
ROBERTS: Breonna Taylor. Say their names, and there's so many names, such unrest in this country this summer-- the summer of unrest. And people from all backgrounds, taken to the streets and saying enough. There's a sense, maybe a hope, that this time is different and you both have been involved in the Civil Rights movements from, you were in a crib in a stroller with your parents in the 60s. Is it different this time? Is it different?
BIDEN: It is different
ROBERTS: How is it different and what will you do if elected a Biden administration to truly bring about change, lasting change?
BIDEN: I would do a whole range of things first of all I'm going to have America look and see that my administration across the board is gonna look like America, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure that we change the entire system in the way in which we deal with, with criminal justice from punishment to rehabilitate, no one should be going to jail because they have a drug addiction. They should be going into mandatory drug treatment that's why I set up drug courts.
We make sure that we're going to see that people have an opportunity to make a living. That's why we're going to see to it that-- right now, 23% of the money that goes into government contracts should go to minority firms, it's not happening. We should, for example, we're going to provide for a $15,000 tax credit for anyone buying the first term homebuyer, designed to allow African Americans and minorities to be able to get into the-- into the market to build wealth.
We're going to provide for a significant increase in what Barack and I started for entrepreneurs and minority entrepreneurs. It's about not just eliminating quote unquote prejudice is about putting people in a position where they can amass wealth, they can amass-- they can do what every other person has been able to. Where do you amass most of your wealth, that gets handed down well and, and the value of your home. Y
You know, if you, if you and I bought a home, same home at the same builder, even though you're an incredibly qualified person and you probably make a hell a lot more money than I make, and same home, different sides of the highway, you're in an African American community, and I'm in a white community. My homes can be valued 23% higher than your home. You park your automobile in the Black neighborhood, you have a better driving record than the white guy in a white neighborhood, you're gonna pay more for insurance.
We have to root out to systemic racism. And an education, an education. That's why we have to triple the money we're spending on Title One schools, those schools that come from low tax base areas, so that we can in fact provide the kind of early education for three and four and five year olds because we know when you do that, you increase exponentially the prospects of success, no matter what you-- where you come from, Black, white, Hispanic, Asian American and so there's so much we can do.
And the public is ready, the blinders have been taken off. They've seen in this COVID crisis who the people who have been lifting them up, who the people are risking their lives, who is stocking the grocery shelves, who are the first responders. And I just think we have an enormous opportunity. Enormous.
ROBERTS: But there's also been a national conversation about policing. And, you know the name that you have “Kamala: Top Cop." Top cop. And the book that you wrote 10 years ago "Smart on Crime," where you could put it by saying that you wanted to see more police on the street. Do you still feel that way?
HARRIS: Listen, I think there is no question. First of all, when I wrote that book, we-- Black Lives Matter did not exist. And I give full credit to the brilliance of that movement in terms of what it has done to advance a conversation that needed to happen, a long time ago, but did not capture the ears or the hearts of the American people. What Black Lives Matter has done as a movement has been to be a counter force against a very entrenched status quo around the criminal justice system in America.
And so we have seen the kind of change that we need that has been happening over the course of the last five years, for sure. And that's why I'm so excited about what we can do in terms of a new administration in the White House. That is about taking on these issues in a way that makes clear that the American people are ready for it and they want it. And so it's about a policy that says we're going to ban chokeholds and carotid holes. George Floyd would be alive today if there had been such a ban. We need that ban.
That's part of the policy and the platform, that a Biden-Harris administration is going to fight for. We need pattern and practice investigations of police departments who have a history and a pattern and practice of discrimination. When I was Attorney General of California, I conducted pattern and practice investigations of law enforcement agencies that were discriminating or exercising excessive force.
A Department of Justice, unlike what Bill Barr is under Donald Trump, that is actually investigating these cases and enforcing consent decrees. A policy that is going to be about decriminalizing marijuana. Having a policy that is about looking at having a centralized database in our country that tracks police officers that have been found to break the rules or break the law. These are the kinds of things that need to be in place. Finally.
And these are the kinds of issues that we are going to take on as an administration and implement, because it is time for that kind of change and enough is enough. Enough is enough.
ROBERTS: It has been almost a daily conversation with a lot of people. President Trump says that you want to defund the police. Do you?
BIDEN: No I don’t. By the way, he proposes cutting a half a billion dollars of local police support. Look, what the police need is the police, first of all, there has to be national standards that in fact apply to every police department in the country.
And that's what we're going to do and it goes across the board in terms of conduct transparency, when in fact there's a defense of a police officer that it can't be by the prosecutor, a prosecutor, you can't be the by the prosecutor that police officer deals with, has to come from another jurisdiction to do it. There’s a lot we can do. But the other side of that is, you know, one of the things that we have in the African American community is the desire to have police who will protect them and know them to be in the street, community policing.
The whole idea of when I wrote that, that bill is community policing. Everybody forgets a third of that bill that I wrote was to put more cops in the street, not in their automobiles, but getting out and knowing the community. Knowing who owns the local grocery store, knowing everybody in the community, and crime will drop. The other thing is-- they also need help. We-- they need more social workers, they need psychologists with them, they need to have the kind of help that in fact allows them to deal with circumstances, where you have someone who is about to jump off a building or someone who is crazed and needs-- you have to have people who are-- have expertise beyond just the physical support and the physical protection of someone.
And that includes psychologists and psychiatrists on police departments. And so that's why we have to-- I don't, I don’t want to defund police departments. I think they need more help, they need more assistance, but that, that-- look, there are unethical senators, there are unethical presidents, there are unethical doctors, unethical lawyers, unethical prosecutors, there are unethical cops. They should be rooted out. The vast majority of the police, they're ashamed of what they saw, what they saw.
But you have to take action, and it has to be national. We have to make it clear that this is about protecting neighborhoods, protecting people, everybody across the board. So the only guy that actually put in a bill to actually defund the police is Donald Trump.
ROBERTS: A final question for each of you. I'll begin with you, Vice President -- Mr. Vice President. How are you going to reach out to people-- that many people who you know have not supported you, do not support you?
BIDEN: Look, I'm going to run as a Democrat, but i’m gonna be an American president. I'm going to, I'm going, I'm going to represent everyone whether they voted for me or not. That’s what presidents are supposed to do. That's what I'm gonna do and reach out and just tell the truth, lay it out. I'm going to be the president for all the people.
The job of a president is to represent everyone whether they voted for you or not. And to tell the truth. Take responsibility. Let people know what you're going to do. The words of a president matter. They matter a great deal, no matter who's uttering those words, and it starts off by telling the truth, and making it clear, this is about-- I get criticized the day I announced if you recall, I think you asked me about it. You said, "do you think you could unite the country?" We have to unite this country.
We have to unite this country. And there's just been too much misinformation that’s been laid out there. People are looking for someone to be authentic, tell the truth and say exactly what they're going to do. And that's what I'm going to do.
ROBERTS: People have had the opportunity to know you over the years, over the decades. You're new on the scene as a nominee.
HARRIS: Oh no, I’m not.
ROBERTS: Well as far as a national public knowing you, in comparison to the vice president. My point being, you’re good, my point being, what is it that one thing you want people to know about you, the one thing that you want them to take away from this conversation tonight?
HARRIS: We see them. We see them. We see, we see that father and mother who are sitting at their kitchen table after the kids go to bed and they're wondering how they're going to pay the rent in September. We see the one in five mothers in America who right now is describing her children under the age of 12 as being hungry. We see those families who have a loved one who is suffering from cancer, or COVID, and deserve to have all the support that gives them dignity and the care they need and the support they need.
We see the eyes of the children in our own families and in our communities, and in our country. Who, who have optimism, and they have capacity and they have brilliance but they need a government that invests in their education and takes it seriously. We see the people. And I think that's what the people deserve. You know Joe, I'm going to, I'm going to, Joe has many sayings I love, he has all kinds of sayings. He and I have that in common too, he talks about his father and his uncle, I talk about my mother. But Joe what is it you talk about, your dad said that what people, they don't expect that their government will solve--
BIDEN: My dad used to say, "I don’t expect the government to solve my problem, but I expect them to understand my problem." Yes, and I think the background we both come from, although very different. It's all about understanding. Ordinary people, given half a chance, not a joke, half a chance, can do extraordinary things. They've never, ever, ever let the country down, given a chance.
ROBERTS: That’s right you said your family you said my uncle's my aunts and "my chitthis."
HARRIS: My chitthis.
ROBERTS: That really blew up the social media, they really appreciated that. It resonated with a lot of Indian households.